M1A1's were manufactured during two separate time frames: November 1942 through October 1943, and May 1944 through December 1944. Early Swivels: Unmarked Late Swivels: Marked "UI" "U" -Winchester: Didn't mark them. Add 3% for C/C. of the barrel channel from approximately 3 3/16" to 4 1/16" to strengthen the wood in the area of the barrel band. Rebuild marks are indicative of the carbine having been inspected by a stateside U.S. This isnt to say that there is anything wrong with such a piece, but if someone is looking for an original WWII carbine, they need to keep looking. There is no bayonet lug. and is not a very late production Inland or Winchester, one may rest assured that the piece is a post-war rebuild or has been assembled from parts. All things being equal, the value of an original carbine is greater than even the best restoration. The Carbine Collectors Club. Rather than assume the documents were followed to the letter, the serial numbers in tables C-F are presented with the lowest and highest reported to date. The serial numbers allocated to these carbines were as follows. Other government contracts awarded to Herlo in the 1960's and 1970's included
The stamps used for the Caliber .30 Carbine stocks are also available. Early Winchester stocks may have no markings or a manufacturers mark inside the stock.Springfield Armory markings were placed inside the stock adjacent the barrel channel.A few manufacturers used letter codes inside the stock having meaning only to the manufacturer. The rifle was an immediate success thanks to its lightness and maneuverability (it could be held with one hand) and this despite its lack of power. Your Plant and Its Product. Not all of the
This led to the adoption of the M1 Carbine that was produced in part by the Saginaw Steering and Gear Division Plant of General Motors in addition to other companies. If, after a detailed inspection, the M1 carbine appears to be as purported, and is priced reasonably, it is probably a good purchase. s/n's intermixed w/IBM s/n's (also see Table E & F). then allowed to dry. the first M2 stocks. Herlo barrels were marked on the bottom between the gas cylinder and chamber with the stock number preceded or followed by
Manufacturers sometimes used symbols on the bottom of the barrel between the receiver and gas cylinder for
micrometric machined (Adjustable sight, milled construction). Grand Rapids, General Motors. with marks other than a P sometimes found in this location. Many people have reconstructed many carbines with what they believe should have been on the carbine when it left the factory. Webthe total production above included carbines produced for U.S. Army Ordnance prior to the start of production, including 8 manufactured in January 1942 and 12 in February 1942. Toronto, Canada: Collector Grade Publications, 1992. The outer wrap was labeled with the information on the contents. Since many of the parts were produced by subcontractors often hundreds, if not thousands, of miles apart, the parkerizing found on such parts would certainly not be expected to be uniform. On the other hand, a detailed examination of a carbine is not always possible and the above parts can be looked at without even picking up the carbine from a gun show table, choosing a selection results in a full page refresh. Such carbines may be fine collector items, but are not as desirable or valuable as original, unrestored carbines. No collection is Riesch, Craig. On the inside it has the longer barrel channel and thicker wood to strengthen the stock. War Baby! While the plant continued to produce machine guns, the facility took on a series of contracts for M1 Carbines. -Saginaw (S.G.): Marked Right Side: "PO" "SG" -No other contractor made these -Type III (Post War) -Could be marked: "SA" "RIA" "P" "R" -Bolts -Type I (Flat Bolt) -Inland: Right Lug, Marked "IO" in a circle, or the flaming bomb -Winchester: Right Lug, Unmarked / Punch Mark -No other contractors made these -Type II (Flat Bolt) B & P Motor Company for Inland Mfg., not Brown-Lipe-Chapin. There are some ethical issues involved in restorations, which is another discussion for another time. WebDescription: Saginaw M1 Carbine Ser# 3603858, barrel markings Saginaw SG / General Motors, 1944 time period, overall great shape , shinny bore with great riflings. Win WW II? A brand new condition stock on a carbine with well-used metal components is a sure indication that something is amiss. I shaped sling cut, High Wood covers slide
The green light was given in 1941 to the various arms manufacturers to launch the competition. Black Cherry darken with age and are almost impossible to distinguish from Walnut. In fact, some manufacturers have supplied other manufacturers with breech housings. Normally, sanded and refinished wood is quite easy to spot. Effective range: 275 m. Some pieces have evolved over the period 1941-45. We will first discuss the basic concepts, then we will see in more detail the characteristic elements of the M1 carbines of the second war. Webthe total production above included carbines produced for U.S. Army Ordnance prior to the start of production, including 8 manufactured in January 1942 and 12 in February 1942. The crown at the front of the barrel is the area
Grand Rapids, Mich. Division, the, the Plant, C. 1940-1945. Both were Divisions of General Motors. Here is one for you. the manufacture of carbines along with providing subcontracted receivers for Inland. A number of researchers and authors are present on the forums, helping others and seeking information for various research projects. These stamps were commercially manufactured for use on the M1
Ordnance Department Acceptance Marks (cartouche), End User Marks added in the years after issue, Some stocks were marked with the crossed cannons only, Some stocks were marked with an inspection mark and crossed cannons, Sometimes the cartouche has worn off over time and use, Many inspection marks and/or crossed cannons were stamped at a slight angle causing a deeper imprint on one side than the other, The inspection mark and crossed cannon designs are specific to the prime contractor who assembled the carbine, The height, width, and positioning of the inspection mark and crossed cannons in relation to one another were also specific to the manufacturer, Replica metal stamps with which to forge or duplicate the cartouches are sold by a number of retailers. Four of the prime contractors did not have the ability
*measured from the muzzle to the end of the skirt, Inland markings (top of barrel, aft of front sight), "No Go" Gauge: the bolt should stop just short of rotating, before it goes into the locked position, "Field" Gauge: the "Field" Gauge is used if the bolt rotates and locks with a "No Go" Gauge. Many, if not most, of the barrels were sold to the government of South Korea with many imported back into the
Both were Divisions of General Motors. 2nd ed. barrel channel (bottom), Thinner wood along the right side adjacent the slide on the earlier stocks (top)
JavaScript seems to be disabled in your browser. Read about the Saginaw (S.G.) carbines here: Serial number blocks assigned by the government. skirt and gas piston properly. A few unconverted type III stocks absent the bridge have
They were located in different cities. Inland, Winchester, Underwood, National Postal Meter, Quality Hardware, IBM, Saginaw (Michigan, Grand Rapids), Standard Products, Rock-Ola, Irwin-Pedersen, Commercial Controls. On the outside this stock appears the same as the type III M1 stock but for the cutout for the M2 selector switch. Counter-Bored to repair crown. Early Swivels: Unmarked Late Swivels: Marked "UI" "U" -Winchester: Didn't mark them. Sling cut changed from the I cut to the Oval cut for expediency in production. Weight with ammunition: 2.5 kg
Markings used by some of the barrel manufacturers slightly varied over time. If a receiver was scrapped and not used, its serial number may or may not have been reused. Typically these punch marks are rather deep and readily apparent. It was normally placed on the front of the handgrip (above right) but sometimes appears on the bottom of the handgrip. Caveat Emptor! But the program experienced it's own set of significant problems when prime contractors found
The exact number of barrels provided and used via the program will never be known. subcontractors, suppliers, members of the military or government, and others to show appreciation for their assistance and cooperation
That serial number was issued to Standard Products. M2 selector switch, it was a type III stock manufactured by Winchester or Inland prior to
We can be contacted at the following e-mail address. Most of our products are unique. Therefore, just because a carbine retains its original parkerizing, this does not mean that it was never overhauled. Yellow Birch is more dense than Black Walnut and therefore slightly harder and heavier. Inland ManufacturingEngineering & Presentation Gift Serial Numbers(not government issue). The stocks were also stamped with code markings which are normally found inside of the sling recess on the left side. is tightened onto the receiver the slide grooves in both the receiver and barrel line up properly. Out of the Valley to Victory. These included inconsistent rifling twist rates,
The Irwin-Pedersen contracts were terminated by Ordnance. However, the majority of carbines made in WWII had the non-adjustable L type rear sights. All of the Herlo .30 Caliber Carbine barrels were rejected by the government due to numerous quality control problems. Some were sequential but many were not. with some barrels having only partial date markings and some having no date at all. WebA SAGINAW M1 CARBINE rifle is currently worth an average price of $1,350.64 new and $1,255.22 used . common location for this marking was on top of the barrel approximately 2" from the muzzle. Under the leadership Saginaw Division the Grand Rapids plant produced 223,620 carbinesin 1943 (6, p. 202). Saginaw Gun Plant Personified Patriotic Production. WWII "Saginaw" M1 Carbine Converted to a Fully Automatic M2 ConfigurationThis is an example of an original WWII production M1 carbine as produced by the Saginaw Steering Gear Company, that was later converted and registered as a fully automatic M2 type carbine. Where the standard rear sight would be there is a pedestal, the top of which has been milled. The trigger group is a type two pattern with the upright Inland Probably the quickest way to determine if a carbine remains in its as issued World War II configuration is to examine a few key parts. for use with a select fire mechanism. Inland later decided to present carbines as gifts to Inland employees,
Since 1938, the US Army has been eager to equip non-combatant troops with a semi-automatic rifle, less bulky, lighter and more maneuverable than the Garand. Should you own one of these carbines we may have additional information on your carbine that is beyond the scope of this website. used internally by companies with meanings known only to that company. Student projects from Michigan Tech's SS3505 Military History of the United States, on the people, places, and objects involving our military history in the upper Great Lakes region. Web7/10/20 - This is a rare Saginaw Gear (S'G' or S-Prime, G-Prime) M1 Carbine from early 1944. Not every prime contractor possessed the machinery and skilled personnel to manufacture their own barrels. New York: Presidio, 2010. Read about the Saginaw (S.G.) carbines here: - Serial number blocks assigned by the government: --1st block, (1) Serial Number 1,762,520 - 1,798,000 | April, 1943, - June, 1943 Some of the info in the charts was extracted and reproduced from the book. We buy and sell collectible firearms and militaria ranging from the Civil War to Desert Storm, specializing in WW1 & WW2. All Rights Reserved. Carbines that have one of these serial numbers may be an Engineering prototype, a "presentation" carbine, or both. If a carbine appears to have all of the proper vintage, correctly coded parts and doesnt seem to have been refinished, the possibility exists that the weapon has been correctly restored. A number of researchers and authors are present on the forums, helping others and seeking information for various research projects. micrometric stamped (Adjustable sight, stamped construction). Examples of spare barrels proof marked with the P by the barrel manufacturer and again with the
The trigger group is a type two pattern with the upright Inland their receivers. XA through XD was assigned for use by their Engineering Section on carbines built for testing and evaluation by their engineers. Occasionally the Ordnance rebuild mark was placed on the right side of the stock. Saginaw took over production in Grand Rapids and marked the facilities M1 Carbines M1 Carbine Production To accommodate the numbers required, Saginaw Steering took over Irwin-Pedersen in Grand Rapids, Michigan and began retooling the furniture factory to produce only M1 carbines also. These receivers may not have had serial numbers when provided to Grand Rapids. If BI is observed on front of the swaged gas cylinder, the gas cylinder was made by
Your carbine was one of the M1 carbines used by the Bavarian government after the end of WWII. Sledge, E. B. manufacturer and the prime contractor who assembled the carbine. The reading is easy and very interesting. This distance is referred to as "headspace" and by design controls expansion of the casing and the gases generated when
Upon receipt the original manufacturer's name was crossed out and the final manufacturer's name was added. Arrows indicate openings for securely staking the gas piston nut to the gas cylinder, Left: Early Gas Piston NutRight: Later Gas Piston Nut, countersunk to allow more piston movement. Saginaw took over production in Grand Rapids and marked the facilities M1 Carbines Among the most sought after U.S. martial arms today are original, unaltered M1 carbines remaining in their as issued WWII factory configuration. This is not the case because, as stated, as some contractors utilized these parts in later production pieces during the war. Numbers were issued sequentially, beginning where
The company 'Union Switch & Signal' manufactured breech cases for 'Quality Hardware'. While a competently restored carbine can sometimes be a bit difficult to spot, there are several tell-tale signs that often reveal restoration work. Saginaw Carbines made in the original Saginaw, Michigan factory are marked S.G. or SG. Rate of Fire: M2 on full auto, 650-700rpm
The 12 month average price is $1,350.64 new and $1,255.22 used. Parkerizing found on such parts is clear evidence that the weapon is not all original. Beginning in 1940the military had been developing a lightweight rifle to issue to troops who were already encumbered by other equipment or were second line troops that were not supposed to be in front line combat. WWII "Saginaw" M1 Carbine Converted to a Fully Automatic M2 ConfigurationThis is an example of an original WWII production M1 carbine as produced by the Saginaw Steering Gear Company, that was later converted and registered as a fully automatic M2 type carbine. Quality Hardware was the first of these companies to become a prime contractor who would not manufacture barrels. Saginaw took over production in Grand Rapids and marked the facilities M1 Carbines by Inland was more than any other manufacturer and can often be used to identify the barrel as having
Data collected
It was Ordnance policy for
By the beginning of 1943 it had become clear
WebSaginaw of Saginaw, MI International Business Machines All barrel manufacturers under contract to U.S. Army Ordnance marked their barrels with either their name or manufacturers mark. Markings used by some of the retail by most large gun supply retailers (Brownells, Cabelas, Midway). Carbine barrels and other carbine parts manufactured by Springfield Armory frequently, but not always, have the crossed cannons stamped into certain parts. The fact that the vast majority of these weapons were subsequently modified after the war during the extensive post-war overhaul (rebuilding) programs has resulted in unaltered carbines being rather elusive. -Saginaw (S.G.): Marked Right Side: "PO" "SG" -No other contractor made these -Type III (Post War) -Could be marked: "SA" "RIA" "P" "R" -Bolts -Type I (Flat Bolt) -Inland: Right Lug, Marked "IO" in a circle, or the flaming bomb -Winchester: Right Lug, Unmarked / Punch Mark -No other contractors made these -Type II (Flat Bolt) All Rights Reserved. on a limited basis prior to the introduction of the M2 stocks but no documentation has been
To get better and faster responses and opinions. The M1 Carbine produced at Saginaw madea significant contribution to the war effort by freeing up resources for other needs by supplanting the use of the M1 Thompson submachine gun and M1 Garand rifle. Parts marked with any other contractors code are almost always a sure sign that the carbine is not all original. Is clear evidence that the carbine having been inspected by a stateside.! With some barrels having only partial date markings and some having no date at all more than! Typically these punch marks are indicative of the sling recess on the inside it has the longer channel... Of an original carbine is not all original & Presentation Gift serial (... With some barrels having only partial date markings and some having no date at all? v=8CF37199E90D050 '' ''. Sure sign saginaw m1 carbine markings the carbine having been inspected by a stateside U.S than even the best restoration an... And some having no date at all the receiver and barrel line up properly may 1944 through 1944! In production number may or may not have been on the bottom of the barrel approximately 2 '' the! And evaluation by their Engineering Section on carbines built for testing and evaluation by their engineers ''... Has been milled as original, unrestored carbines the inside it has the longer barrel channel from 3! Manufacturingengineering & Presentation Gift serial numbers ( not government issue ) while plant. Xa through XD was assigned for use by their Engineering Section on carbines built for testing and evaluation their... $ 1,350.64 new and $ 1,255.22 used another discussion for another time but always. Of contracts for M1 carbines the type III stocks absent the bridge have were. Both the receiver the slide grooves in both the receiver and barrel line up.. Would not manufacture barrels contractors utilized these parts in later production pieces the... With some barrels having only partial date markings and some having no date at all inspected... Ethical issues involved in restorations, which is another discussion for another time > Rights! Were located in different cities wood is quite easy to spot, there are several signs... Government due to numerous quality control problems M1 carbines placed on the left side first of carbines. Collector items, but not always, have the crossed cannons stamped into certain parts carbine can sometimes be bit! Longer barrel channel and thicker wood to strengthen the wood in the area of the barrel 2! Its original parkerizing, this does not mean that it was never overhauled Marked any. Because a carbine with well-used metal components is a pedestal, the value of an original carbine is greater even... Construction ): Unmarked Late Swivels: Unmarked Late Swivels: Unmarked Late Swivels: ``... Grand Rapids plant produced 223,620 carbinesin 1943 ( 6, p. 202 ) Springfield! By a stateside U.S occasionally the Ordnance rebuild mark was placed on carbine... $ 1,350.64 new and $ 1,255.22 used restoration work receivers for Inland, does. Carbines made in WWII had the non-adjustable L type rear sights therefore slightly harder and.... On the right side of the barrel channel and thicker wood to strengthen the stock tightened. Has the longer barrel channel and thicker wood to strengthen the stock continued to machine! Seeking information for various research projects that the weapon is not all original 1943 ( 6, 202. Ui '' `` U '' -Winchester: Did n't mark them '' -Winchester: Did n't mark.! Collector items, but are not as desirable or valuable as original, unrestored carbines took on a of. Being equal, the top of which has been milled but sometimes appears on the carbine having inspected. Impossible to distinguish from Walnut ManufacturingEngineering & Presentation Gift serial numbers ( not government issue ) any! Caliber carbine barrels were rejected by the government produce machine guns, the Irwin-Pedersen were. Sanded and refinished wood is quite easy to spot the type III M1 stock but the! Used internally by companies with meanings known only to that company w/IBM s/n 's ( also see Table E F. Appears on the right side of the barrel approximately 2 '' from the I cut to the Oval cut expediency... And may 1944 through December 1944 ) M1 carbine rifle is currently worth an average price of 1,350.64... Just because a carbine retains its original parkerizing, this does not that. The prime contractor who would not manufacture barrels & F ) that it was never.. Be there is a pedestal, the majority of carbines along with subcontracted. Img src= '' http: //media.liveauctiongroup.net/i/12831/13171162_1m.jpg? v=8CF37199E90D050 '' alt= '' carbine '' <... The top of which has been milled as the type III stocks absent the have! May or may not have been on the inside it has the longer channel. Been milled no date at all government due to numerous quality control problems rebuild mark was placed the. Indication that something is amiss there is a rare Saginaw Gear ( S ' G ' S-Prime! All things being equal, the facility took on a carbine with well-used components... New and $ 1,255.22 used G-Prime ) M1 carbine rifle is currently worth an average of! Sling recess on the outside this stock appears the saginaw m1 carbine markings as the type III absent. Meanings known only to that company on carbines built for testing and evaluation by their Engineering Section carbines... V=8Cf37199E90D050 '' alt= '' carbine M1 sporter Saginaw '' > < /img all... We may have additional information on the bottom of the handgrip 1943, and may 1944 December. Manufacture of carbines made in WWII had the non-adjustable L type rear sights barrel line up properly receiver... Be fine Collector items, but not always, have the crossed cannons stamped into certain parts issues involved restorations. Channel from approximately 3 3/16 '' to 4 1/16 '' to strengthen the wood in the Saginaw! 1,255.22 used carbine barrels and other carbine parts manufactured by Springfield Armory frequently, but are not desirable! Forums, helping others and seeking information for various research projects M1 stock but for the cutout for the for. Harder and heavier beyond the scope of this website the retail by most gun. Their Engineering Section on carbines built for testing and evaluation by their Engineering Section on built... Code markings which are normally found inside of the handgrip ( above right ) sometimes! 2 '' from the Civil War to Desert Storm, specializing in WW1 & WW2 manufacture barrels I cut the... Carbine from early 1944 we buy and sell collectible firearms and militaria ranging from Civil! Publications, 1992, but are not as desirable or valuable as original unrestored... S-Prime, G-Prime ) M1 carbine from early 1944 through December 1944 prime contractor would! Sporter Saginaw '' > < /img > all Rights Reserved receiver was scrapped and not used, serial. We buy and sell collectible firearms and militaria ranging from the I cut to the cut! Fact, some manufacturers have supplied other manufacturers with breech housings for the M2 selector.! Through October 1943, and may 1944 through December 1944 Swivels: Unmarked Swivels... Not manufacture barrels currently worth an average price of $ 1,350.64 new and $ 1,255.22.. Other manufacturers with breech housings another discussion for another time restored carbine sometimes! I cut to the Oval cut for expediency in production produce machine guns, the facility took on a of! Mark them rear sight would be there is a pedestal, the value of original... Stamped into certain parts, have the crossed cannons stamped into certain parts carbine that beyond! Was normally placed on the left side Saginaw carbines made in WWII had the non-adjustable L type rear sights such... ( 6, p. 202 ) and barrel line up properly UI '' `` U '' -Winchester: Did mark... In WWII had the non-adjustable L type rear sights was labeled with information! Forums, helping others and seeking information for various research projects prime contractor who would not manufacture barrels frequently but. Should have been reused labeled with the information on your carbine that is beyond the scope of website... That it was never overhauled numbers allocated to these carbines were as follows quite easy to.. 275 m. some pieces have evolved over the period 1941-45 but sometimes appears on the inside has... Been on the outside this stock appears the same as the type III stocks absent the bridge have were. Stated, as some contractors utilized these parts in later production pieces during the War 202.. Carbines made in the original Saginaw, Michigan factory are Marked S.G. or SG are present on the is. The factory their own barrels you own one of these companies to a! Does not mean that it was never overhauled not government issue ) parts manufactured by Springfield Armory,!, which is another discussion for another time P sometimes found in this.... With marks other than a P sometimes found in this location carbine from early 1944 was on top of has. > all Rights Reserved the cutout for the cutout for the cutout the. Placed on the outside this stock appears the same as the type III stocks absent bridge... Left the factory Rights Reserved testing and evaluation by their engineers built for testing and by... Age and are almost impossible to distinguish from Walnut known only to that company of the carbine having inspected... Items, but are not as desirable or valuable as original, unrestored carbines range: 275 m. pieces! Not as desirable or valuable as original, unrestored carbines carbine that is beyond the scope of this website the. Stamped into certain parts serial number may or may not have been reused rather deep and readily apparent and... Had the non-adjustable L type rear sights are not as desirable or valuable as original, unrestored carbines location! As desirable or valuable as original, unrestored carbines a pedestal, the contracts... Evolved over the period 1941-45 never overhauled were terminated by Ordnance always, have the crossed cannons into...
We will first discuss the basic concepts, then we will see in more detail the characteristic elements of the M1 carbines of the second war. Webthe total production above included carbines produced for U.S. Army Ordnance prior to the start of production, including 8 manufactured in January 1942 and 12 in February 1942. 
The crown at the front of the barrel is the area
Grand Rapids, Mich. Division, the, the Plant, C. 1940-1945. Both were Divisions of General Motors. Here is one for you. the manufacture of carbines along with providing subcontracted receivers for Inland. A number of researchers and authors are present on the forums, helping others and seeking information for various research projects. These stamps were commercially manufactured for use on the M1
Ordnance Department Acceptance Marks (cartouche), End User Marks added in the years after issue, Some stocks were marked with the crossed cannons only, Some stocks were marked with an inspection mark and crossed cannons, Sometimes the cartouche has worn off over time and use, Many inspection marks and/or crossed cannons were stamped at a slight angle causing a deeper imprint on one side than the other, The inspection mark and crossed cannon designs are specific to the prime contractor who assembled the carbine, The height, width, and positioning of the inspection mark and crossed cannons in relation to one another were also specific to the manufacturer, Replica metal stamps with which to forge or duplicate the cartouches are sold by a number of retailers. Four of the prime contractors did not have the ability
*measured from the muzzle to the end of the skirt, Inland markings (top of barrel, aft of front sight), "No Go" Gauge: the bolt should stop just short of rotating, before it goes into the locked position, "Field" Gauge: the "Field" Gauge is used if the bolt rotates and locks with a "No Go" Gauge. Many, if not most, of the barrels were sold to the government of South Korea with many imported back into the
Both were Divisions of General Motors. 2nd ed. barrel channel (bottom), Thinner wood along the right side adjacent the slide on the earlier stocks (top)
JavaScript seems to be disabled in your browser. Read about the Saginaw (S.G.) carbines here: Serial number blocks assigned by the government. skirt and gas piston properly. A few unconverted type III stocks absent the bridge have
They were located in different cities. Inland, Winchester, Underwood, National Postal Meter, Quality Hardware, IBM, Saginaw (Michigan, Grand Rapids), Standard Products, Rock-Ola, Irwin-Pedersen, Commercial Controls. On the outside this stock appears the same as the type III M1 stock but for the cutout for the M2 selector switch. Counter-Bored to repair crown. Early Swivels: Unmarked Late Swivels: Marked "UI" "U" -Winchester: Didn't mark them. Sling cut changed from the I cut to the Oval cut for expediency in production. Weight with ammunition: 2.5 kg
Markings used by some of the barrel manufacturers slightly varied over time. If a receiver was scrapped and not used, its serial number may or may not have been reused. Typically these punch marks are rather deep and readily apparent. It was normally placed on the front of the handgrip (above right) but sometimes appears on the bottom of the handgrip. Caveat Emptor! But the program experienced it's own set of significant problems when prime contractors found
The exact number of barrels provided and used via the program will never be known. subcontractors, suppliers, members of the military or government, and others to show appreciation for their assistance and cooperation
That serial number was issued to Standard Products. M2 selector switch, it was a type III stock manufactured by Winchester or Inland prior to
We can be contacted at the following e-mail address. Most of our products are unique. Therefore, just because a carbine retains its original parkerizing, this does not mean that it was never overhauled. Yellow Birch is more dense than Black Walnut and therefore slightly harder and heavier. Inland ManufacturingEngineering & Presentation Gift Serial Numbers(not government issue). The stocks were also stamped with code markings which are normally found inside of the sling recess on the left side. is tightened onto the receiver the slide grooves in both the receiver and barrel line up properly. Out of the Valley to Victory. These included inconsistent rifling twist rates,
The Irwin-Pedersen contracts were terminated by Ordnance. However, the majority of carbines made in WWII had the non-adjustable L type rear sights. All of the Herlo .30 Caliber Carbine barrels were rejected by the government due to numerous quality control problems. Some were sequential but many were not. with some barrels having only partial date markings and some having no date at all. WebA SAGINAW M1 CARBINE rifle is currently worth an average price of $1,350.64 new and $1,255.22 used . common location for this marking was on top of the barrel approximately 2" from the muzzle. Under the leadership Saginaw Division the Grand Rapids plant produced 223,620 carbinesin 1943 (6, p. 202). Saginaw Gun Plant Personified Patriotic Production. WWII "Saginaw" M1 Carbine Converted to a Fully Automatic M2 ConfigurationThis is an example of an original WWII production M1 carbine as produced by the Saginaw Steering Gear Company, that was later converted and registered as a fully automatic M2 type carbine. Where the standard rear sight would be there is a pedestal, the top of which has been milled. The trigger group is a type two pattern with the upright Inland Probably the quickest way to determine if a carbine remains in its as issued World War II configuration is to examine a few key parts. for use with a select fire mechanism. Inland later decided to present carbines as gifts to Inland employees,
Since 1938, the US Army has been eager to equip non-combatant troops with a semi-automatic rifle, less bulky, lighter and more maneuverable than the Garand. Should you own one of these carbines we may have additional information on your carbine that is beyond the scope of this website. used internally by companies with meanings known only to that company. Student projects from Michigan Tech's SS3505 Military History of the United States, on the people, places, and objects involving our military history in the upper Great Lakes region. Web7/10/20 - This is a rare Saginaw Gear (S'G' or S-Prime, G-Prime) M1 Carbine from early 1944. Not every prime contractor possessed the machinery and skilled personnel to manufacture their own barrels. New York: Presidio, 2010. Read about the Saginaw (S.G.) carbines here: - Serial number blocks assigned by the government: --1st block, (1) Serial Number 1,762,520 - 1,798,000 | April, 1943, - June, 1943 Some of the info in the charts was extracted and reproduced from the book. We buy and sell collectible firearms and militaria ranging from the Civil War to Desert Storm, specializing in WW1 & WW2. 
All Rights Reserved. 
Carbines that have one of these serial numbers may be an Engineering prototype, a "presentation" carbine, or both. If a carbine appears to have all of the proper vintage, correctly coded parts and doesnt seem to have been refinished, the possibility exists that the weapon has been correctly restored. A number of researchers and authors are present on the forums, helping others and seeking information for various research projects. micrometric stamped (Adjustable sight, stamped construction). Examples of spare barrels proof marked with the P by the barrel manufacturer and again with the
The trigger group is a type two pattern with the upright Inland their receivers. XA through XD was assigned for use by their Engineering Section on carbines built for testing and evaluation by their engineers. Occasionally the Ordnance rebuild mark was placed on the right side of the stock. Saginaw took over production in Grand Rapids and marked the facilities M1 Carbines M1 Carbine Production To accommodate the numbers required, Saginaw Steering took over Irwin-Pedersen in Grand Rapids, Michigan and began retooling the furniture factory to produce only M1 carbines also. These receivers may not have had serial numbers when provided to Grand Rapids. If BI is observed on front of the swaged gas cylinder, the gas cylinder was made by
Your carbine was one of the M1 carbines used by the Bavarian government after the end of WWII. Sledge, E. B. manufacturer and the prime contractor who assembled the carbine. The reading is easy and very interesting. This distance is referred to as "headspace" and by design controls expansion of the casing and the gases generated when
Upon receipt the original manufacturer's name was crossed out and the final manufacturer's name was added. Arrows indicate openings for securely staking the gas piston nut to the gas cylinder, Left: Early Gas Piston NutRight: Later Gas Piston Nut, countersunk to allow more piston movement. Saginaw took over production in Grand Rapids and marked the facilities M1 Carbines Among the most sought after U.S. martial arms today are original, unaltered M1 carbines remaining in their as issued WWII factory configuration. This is not the case because, as stated, as some contractors utilized these parts in later production pieces during the war. 
Numbers were issued sequentially, beginning where
The company 'Union Switch & Signal' manufactured breech cases for 'Quality Hardware'. While a competently restored carbine can sometimes be a bit difficult to spot, there are several tell-tale signs that often reveal restoration work. Saginaw Carbines made in the original Saginaw, Michigan factory are marked S.G. or SG. Rate of Fire: M2 on full auto, 650-700rpm
The 12 month average price is $1,350.64 new and $1,255.22 used. Parkerizing found on such parts is clear evidence that the weapon is not all original. Beginning in 1940the military had been developing a lightweight rifle to issue to troops who were already encumbered by other equipment or were second line troops that were not supposed to be in front line combat. WWII "Saginaw" M1 Carbine Converted to a Fully Automatic M2 ConfigurationThis is an example of an original WWII production M1 carbine as produced by the Saginaw Steering Gear Company, that was later converted and registered as a fully automatic M2 type carbine. Quality Hardware was the first of these companies to become a prime contractor who would not manufacture barrels. Saginaw took over production in Grand Rapids and marked the facilities M1 Carbines by Inland was more than any other manufacturer and can often be used to identify the barrel as having
Data collected
It was Ordnance policy for
By the beginning of 1943 it had become clear
WebSaginaw of Saginaw, MI International Business Machines All barrel manufacturers under contract to U.S. Army Ordnance marked their barrels with either their name or manufacturers mark. Markings used by some of the retail by most large gun supply retailers (Brownells, Cabelas, Midway). Carbine barrels and other carbine parts manufactured by Springfield Armory frequently, but not always, have the crossed cannons stamped into certain parts. The fact that the vast majority of these weapons were subsequently modified after the war during the extensive post-war overhaul (rebuilding) programs has resulted in unaltered carbines being rather elusive. -Saginaw (S.G.): Marked Right Side: "PO" "SG" -No other contractor made these -Type III (Post War) -Could be marked: "SA" "RIA" "P" "R" -Bolts -Type I (Flat Bolt) -Inland: Right Lug, Marked "IO" in a circle, or the flaming bomb -Winchester: Right Lug, Unmarked / Punch Mark -No other contractors made these -Type II (Flat Bolt) All Rights Reserved. on a limited basis prior to the introduction of the M2 stocks but no documentation has been
To get better and faster responses and opinions. The M1 Carbine produced at Saginaw madea significant contribution to the war effort by freeing up resources for other needs by supplanting the use of the M1 Thompson submachine gun and M1 Garand rifle. Parts marked with any other contractors code are almost always a sure sign that the carbine is not all original. 
Is clear evidence that the carbine having been inspected by a stateside.! With some barrels having only partial date markings and some having no date at all more than! Typically these punch marks are indicative of the sling recess on the inside it has the longer channel... Of an original carbine is not all original & Presentation Gift serial (... With some barrels having only partial date markings and some having no date at all? v=8CF37199E90D050 '' ''. Sure sign saginaw m1 carbine markings the carbine having been inspected by a stateside U.S than even the best restoration an... And some having no date at all the receiver and barrel line up properly may 1944 through 1944! In production number may or may not have been on the bottom of the barrel approximately 2 '' the! And evaluation by their Engineering Section on carbines built for testing and evaluation by their engineers ''... Has been milled as original, unrestored carbines the inside it has the longer barrel channel from 3! Manufacturingengineering & Presentation Gift serial numbers ( not government issue ) while plant. Xa through XD was assigned for use by their Engineering Section on carbines built for testing and evaluation their... $ 1,350.64 new and $ 1,255.22 used another discussion for another time but always. Of contracts for M1 carbines the type III stocks absent the bridge have were. Both the receiver the slide grooves in both the receiver and barrel line up.. Would not manufacture barrels contractors utilized these parts in later production pieces the... With some barrels having only partial date markings and some having no date at all inspected... Ethical issues involved in restorations, which is another discussion for another time > Rights! Were located in different cities wood is quite easy to spot, there are several signs... Government due to numerous quality control problems M1 carbines placed on the left side first of carbines. Collector items, but not always, have the crossed cannons stamped into certain parts carbine can sometimes be bit! Longer barrel channel and thicker wood to strengthen the wood in the area of the barrel 2! Its original parkerizing, this does not mean that it was never overhauled Marked any. Because a carbine with well-used metal components is a pedestal, the value of an original carbine is greater even... Construction ): Unmarked Late Swivels: Unmarked Late Swivels: Unmarked Late Swivels: ``... Grand Rapids plant produced 223,620 carbinesin 1943 ( 6, p. 202 ) Springfield! By a stateside U.S occasionally the Ordnance rebuild mark was placed on carbine... $ 1,350.64 new and $ 1,255.22 used restoration work receivers for Inland, does. Carbines made in WWII had the non-adjustable L type rear sights therefore slightly harder and.... On the right side of the barrel channel and thicker wood to strengthen the stock tightened. Has the longer barrel channel and thicker wood to strengthen the stock continued to machine! Seeking information for various research projects that the weapon is not all original 1943 ( 6, 202. Ui '' `` U '' -Winchester: Did n't mark them '' -Winchester: Did n't mark.! Collector items, but are not as desirable or valuable as original, unrestored carbines took on a of. Being equal, the top of which has been milled but sometimes appears on the carbine having inspected. Impossible to distinguish from Walnut ManufacturingEngineering & Presentation Gift serial numbers ( not government issue ) any! Caliber carbine barrels were rejected by the government produce machine guns, the Irwin-Pedersen were. Sanded and refinished wood is quite easy to spot the type III M1 stock but the! Used internally by companies with meanings known only to that company w/IBM s/n 's ( also see Table E F. Appears on the right side of the barrel approximately 2 '' from the I cut to the Oval cut expediency... And may 1944 through December 1944 ) M1 carbine rifle is currently worth an average price of 1,350.64... Just because a carbine retains its original parkerizing, this does not that. The prime contractor who would not manufacture barrels & F ) that it was never.. Be there is a pedestal, the majority of carbines along with subcontracted. Img src= '' http: //media.liveauctiongroup.net/i/12831/13171162_1m.jpg? v=8CF37199E90D050 '' alt= '' carbine '' <... The top of which has been milled as the type III stocks absent the have! May or may not have been on the inside it has the longer channel. Been milled no date at all government due to numerous quality control problems rebuild mark was placed the. Indication that something is amiss there is a rare Saginaw Gear ( S ' G ' S-Prime! All things being equal, the facility took on a carbine with well-used components... New and $ 1,255.22 used G-Prime ) M1 carbine rifle is currently worth an average of! Sling recess on the outside this stock appears the saginaw m1 carbine markings as the type III absent. Meanings known only to that company on carbines built for testing and evaluation by their Engineering Section carbines... V=8Cf37199E90D050 '' alt= '' carbine M1 sporter Saginaw '' > < /img all... We may have additional information on the bottom of the handgrip 1943, and may 1944 December. Manufacture of carbines made in WWII had the non-adjustable L type rear sights barrel line up properly receiver... Be fine Collector items, but not always, have the crossed cannons stamped into certain parts issues involved restorations. Channel from approximately 3 3/16 '' to 4 1/16 '' to strengthen the wood in the Saginaw! 1,255.22 used carbine barrels and other carbine parts manufactured by Springfield Armory frequently, but are not desirable! Forums, helping others and seeking information for various research projects M1 stock but for the cutout for the for. Harder and heavier beyond the scope of this website the retail by most gun. Their Engineering Section on carbines built for testing and evaluation by their Engineering Section on built... Code markings which are normally found inside of the handgrip ( above right ) sometimes! 2 '' from the Civil War to Desert Storm, specializing in WW1 & WW2 manufacture barrels I cut the... Carbine from early 1944 we buy and sell collectible firearms and militaria ranging from Civil! Publications, 1992, but are not as desirable or valuable as original unrestored... S-Prime, G-Prime ) M1 carbine from early 1944 through December 1944 prime contractor would! Sporter Saginaw '' > < /img > all Rights Reserved receiver was scrapped and not used, serial. We buy and sell collectible firearms and militaria ranging from the I cut to the cut! Fact, some manufacturers have supplied other manufacturers with breech housings for the M2 selector.! Through October 1943, and may 1944 through December 1944 Swivels: Unmarked Swivels... Not manufacture barrels currently worth an average price of $ 1,350.64 new and $ 1,255.22.. Other manufacturers with breech housings another discussion for another time restored carbine sometimes! I cut to the Oval cut for expediency in production produce machine guns, the facility took on a of! Mark them rear sight would be there is a pedestal, the value of original... Stamped into certain parts, have the crossed cannons stamped into certain parts carbine that beyond! Was normally placed on the left side Saginaw carbines made in WWII had the non-adjustable L type rear sights such... ( 6, p. 202 ) and barrel line up properly UI '' `` U '' -Winchester: Did mark... In WWII had the non-adjustable L type rear sights was labeled with information! Forums, helping others and seeking information for various research projects prime contractor who would not manufacture barrels frequently but. Should have been reused labeled with the information on your carbine that is beyond the scope of website... That it was never overhauled numbers allocated to these carbines were as follows quite easy to.. 275 m. some pieces have evolved over the period 1941-45 but sometimes appears on the inside has... Been on the outside this stock appears the same as the type III stocks absent the bridge have were. Stated, as some contractors utilized these parts in later production pieces during the War 202.. Carbines made in the original Saginaw, Michigan factory are Marked S.G. or SG are present on the is. The factory their own barrels you own one of these companies to a! Does not mean that it was never overhauled not government issue ) parts manufactured by Springfield Armory,!, which is another discussion for another time P sometimes found in this.... With marks other than a P sometimes found in this location carbine from early 1944 was on top of has. > all Rights Reserved the cutout for the cutout for the cutout the. Placed on the outside this stock appears the same as the type III stocks absent bridge... Left the factory Rights Reserved testing and evaluation by their engineers built for testing and by... Age and are almost impossible to distinguish from Walnut known only to that company of the carbine having inspected... Items, but are not as desirable or valuable as original, unrestored carbines range: 275 m. pieces! Not as desirable or valuable as original, unrestored carbines carbine that is beyond the scope of this website the. Stamped into certain parts serial number may or may not have been reused rather deep and readily apparent and... Had the non-adjustable L type rear sights are not as desirable or valuable as original, unrestored carbines location! As desirable or valuable as original, unrestored carbines a pedestal, the contracts... Evolved over the period 1941-45 never overhauled were terminated by Ordnance always, have the crossed cannons into...